Monday, September 14, 2009
Being clever vs. Being wise
Today we talked a lot about the difference between being clever and being wise. At 4e, Socrates says, asks "you have no fear of havin acted impiously in bringing your father to trial? Later at 5c, Euthyphro explains that we he to be indicted, he would "find his (opponent's) weak spots." Explain the difference between these two statements. Explain why these statements are related to the difference between being clever and being wise.
11 comments:
Socrates' remark seems to be a bit more wary, as if he, were he in Euthyphro's position, would have stopped to ask himself, "Is this really the best thing for me to do?" Euthyphro, however, seems a bit more certain of his choices, like he feels invincible and unable to be attacked by his opponents. Obviously, of course, he will be attacked. In my homework, I described how cleverness is knowing trivia and facts, and wisdom is knowing the nature of things. In this situation, Socrates is representing wisdom and Euthyphro represents cleverness.
-Louis
I say that Euthyphro is clever but that just means that he knows this like law and how to win a jury and Socrates' is aware of his ignornce which was his way of finding truth
leopold
Okay, so this isn't the hardest question in the world - the difference between being clever and being wise. I suppose wisdom is something that we're all born with, because to be wise is to have knowledge, basically, whether the knowledge we have is the truth or not. Falsified truth, if you will. To be clever is to take the knowledge you have and apply it to the real world.
When Socrates asks Euthyphro what he thinks piety is, he's challenging what Euthyphro thinks he knows. Later on, Euthyphro says that if he were indicted, he would use things like fallacies to try to get what he wants and needs. This is an application of cleverness. The difference is quite clear. One who is wise knows how to differentiate between wrong and right, using his own judgment. One who is clever uses his knowledge to save people or save himself.
The question and statement stated by both men are similar to the phrase being clever and being wise. The reson for this is ,the question is wise and the statement is clever. The question that Socrates asks is, "do you have no fear of havin acted impiously in bringing your father to trial?" This is a wise question becuase it is using the knowledge about piety's accceptance in the community, which is common knowledge. Then asking Euthyphro his feelings about the subject. Where as Euthyphro has a clever statement, "I shall find his (opponent's) weak spots." This statement is clever because Euthyphro he is using his knowledge to gain an advantage over his oppenent. So in conclusion wisdom is the application of your knowledge in a passive method. Where as cleverness is the application of knowledge aggresive but intellegent method.
Arman
Socrates and Euthyphro are representatives of the difference between being clever and being wise. Socrates represents wisedom when he asks "You have no fear of havin acted impiously in bringing your father to trial," because he wants to know more about Euthyphro to anaylze his motives in a non-aggressive manner. While Euthyphro represents cleverness by saying he would "Find his (opponent's) weak spots," because he wants to get more info on Meletus to win the case in an agressive manner. The difference between these two statements is that Socrates' statement is to find the truth, but Euthyphro's statement is to follow laws and win the case.
Christopher, I think you're right on!!!
Mr. Wille responded to my comment by asking me why Socrates doesn't just tell Euthyphro if he's asking justly or unjustly, and what was really peculiar about Socrates' responses.
What I was trying to say was that Euthyphro had both wisdom and cleverness within him. Wisdom is sort of the general term, and cleverness is a specific way of applying that wisdom. Socrates doesn't tell Euthyphro if he's acting justly or unjustly because this whole conversation they're having is sort of trying to find out what is right or wrong. Euthyphro says that the gods decide what is right or wrong, but there are many gods, and what might be pleasing to one god may be insulting to another.
Socrates is being accused of teaching his own wisdom, but he himself doesn't really say what he is saying is right or wrong, does he?
The peculiar thing about Socrates' responses are that instead of judging for himself Euthyphro's actions, he's first trying to fidn out what is right or wrong. I think Socrates might have a general definition of it in his mind, but he wants to unhinge Euthyphro's mind. That's just my opinion, though.
Socrates says,"you have no fear of havin acted impiously in bringing your father to trial?
Euthyphro explains that he would "find his (opponent's) weak spots."
Clever or wise?
In my opinion, Both these men are clever and wise in there own ways but for diffrent reasons.
Socrates uses CLEVER questioning to be wise and find out more about the truth and behavior of the other
Meanwhile Euthyphro CLEVERLY would "find" his oponents weeks spots then make wise assumptions to pick on it til the give in
so they both are clever and wise in ther own ways
Well, what i think is that, Socrates, being the wise man most people see him as, is trying to find the knowledge and the truth of whether or not Euthyphro feels pious or impious about prosecuting his father. Whereas, Euthypro, saying that if he was in Socartes' position, he wouldn't exactly be searching for knowledge on something that has nothing to do with his case, but rather, search for knowledge on his prosecutor, and try to turn the prosecutor's case against him, which i think Euthyphro meant by "weak spots". So what i think about the relation to these statements and the difference between being wise and clever is that Socrates is still trying gain knowlege, such as Euthyphro's perspective of being pious, even under the pressure of a prosecution, and still expand his knowledge of well, KNOWLEDGE, no matter the circumstance, while Euthyphro is trying to gain knowledge not for the sake of gaining it, but to use it as to get the upper hand over someone, such as what he said about "weak spots". So, i just think that Socrates is being wise and Euthyphro is being clever.
YESS!!! oh my god, i finally realize the things i couldn't put into words about the difference between wisdom and cleverness. I agree with many of you guys, and I'm probably going to rephrase of what you guys are talking about but from what i understood, I believe Euthyphro is both showing cleverness and wisdom. It is part of Euthyphro's belief of piety of prosecuting his father for an injustice, thus making him wise. As for "finding Meletus' weak spots," it just shows how clever he is. I agree with all of you so i tried to keep my answer "original."
--Fahmida
Ventura-
i my opnion the meaning of being wise is being able to look at a situation and being able to determine the logical and obvious choice. Being clever however is trying o find a way out of a situation using some sort of cleaver tricks like laywers.
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